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[September 08, 2006]


(Federal News Service (Middle East) Via Thomson Dialog NewsEdge)

FRIDAY, September 8, 2006
(Broadcasts of Thursday, September 7, 2006)


Interview with Army Lieutenant General Peter Chiarelli:

JIM LEHRER: Our newsmaker interview with the commanding general
of multinational forces in Iraq, Army Lieutenant General Peter
Chiarelli. Ray Suarez talked with him earlier today. There were a few
audio difficulties on the satellite feed from Baghdad.

RAY SUAREZ: General, welcome. It seems, every morning, on the
news in the United States, there's an overnight tally of how many
people are being killed in Iraq, 25 one day, 38 the next, a dozen
tortured bodies picked up from the street the next day. In that kind
of conflict zone, what's the role of an individual American Marine or

Multinational Corps Iraq: Well, the individual American Marine or
soldier is out every single day, trying to bring peace to Iraq, and
trying to help establish the democratic government of Iraq.

I see the same reports you see. Some of them are correct. Some
of them are incorrect. But I will tell you, there's -- there's good
things happening in Baghdad and around the country. The last two days,
I have been in two of the areas that we have cleared, and been able to
see firsthand what is going in those areas.

And they have become secure areas, not totally free of violence,
but areas where people are beginning to get on with their lives, where
individuals who were displaced from their homes in the very, very
heavy violence that we had a month ago are -- are now returning to
their homes. And we're seeing the beginning of economic revitalization
of those areas. And, before too long, we will see some long-term
projects, where basic services kick in, and, we think, really, really
contribute to the security of Baghdad.

RAY SUAREZ: If there are gangs or militias or groups of people
who really intend to wreak violence on each other, how does an armed
force intervene to stop that?

important to understand that this isn't all Iraqis fighting all
Iraqis. There are small groups of individuals -- we call them death
squads -- who are intent on attempting to try to continue this level
of sectarian violence. It's our job to go out on the security line of
operation and find those death squads, and -- and bring them to

At the same time, we're facilitating bringing basic services and
allowing the government to bring basic services to the people in these
focus areas. The focus areas are increasing every single day, as we
secure and of Baghdad. And that will continue for the months
to come.

RAY SUAREZ: This morning, the Iraqi Health Ministry released
statistics that showed that, as far as they were concerned, August was
just as violent a month as July in the Iraqi capital, this even with
Iraqi forces and the United States, in a joint operation,
concentrating on trying to quell the violence in Baghdad itself.
What's your response?

political agendas being played in -- in this government, as they are
in all governments.
And we don't necessarily agree with -- with -- with those numbers that
have come out. The numbers that I have seen in the August time period
indicate a decrease in sectarian violence. All the indicators that we
have indicate that, in Baghdad and the surrounding areas, and really
throughout all of Iraq -- but since Baghdad and Diyala Province have
been the key provinces for sectarian violence, we saw a significant
decrease in the months of August over the same numbers we saw in July.

The Ministry of Health has numbers. We have numbers. And I -- I
will tell you that I feel comfortable that our numbers indicate a
decrease in sectarian violence in the month of August.

RAY SUAREZ: You have been quoted as saying that this is a
different war than the one the United States was fighting in Iraq two
or three years ago. How so? How have forces had -- had to adjust in
recent months?

LIEUTENANT GENERAL PETER CHIARELLI: Well, there's no doubt in my
mind this is a different war than we fought two or three years ago, or
this is -- and this is a different war than the United States has ever

I, quite frankly, don't even like comparisons to Vietnam. You
can say it's an insurgency, and Vietnam was an insurgency. But this is
a different kind of insurgency. This is an insurgency that -- for an
example, in Baghdad -- it's a city of 7.5 million people -- we're not
fighting large formations. We're fighting an enemy that blends in to
the population, an enemy that has no fixed numbers.

And it requires U.S. forces to -- to change the way they fight,
to move from the things that I and many soldiers are very comfortable,
what we call kinetic things, such as the use of power, to use and
non-kinetic elements.

And it's those non-kinetic elements that prove so absolutely
critical. I never thought that I would know anything about how a sewer
system in a city of 7.5 million people work, but I do now. And -- and
I know that, only because the people of Baghdad want their sewers
fixed, it is important that I understand how it works. And I can help
the Iraqi government do what is necessary to make sure that it works,
that fresh, potable water works, that sewage systems work, that
electricity works that health care systems work.

Those are all part of that non-kinetic fight critical to the
security of Iraq, because, if we can have the people in Baghdad and
all over Iraq believe that their life is getting better in those four
or five areas, it will definitely contribute to the security line of
operation, and make Baghdad and Iraq a much secure city and

RAY SUAREZ: One very measurable aspect of the United States
forces' time in Iraq that you have put a lot of stock in trying to
address is the killing of civilians by U.S. forces at places where
there are encounters between the two. What have you done? And how has
it been working so far?

force. And we have driven those numbers down significantly in the last
six months. In fact, we -- we have cut them by almost two-thirds.
Again, this is an extremely difficult battle for a soldier. The enemy
doesn't wear uniforms. It's hard to tell a vehicle that's rigged with
explosives from a vehicle that's going to the market.

And what we're trying to do is not take away a soldier's right
of self-defense in a very, very difficult environment. What we are
trying to do, and what our soldiers and sailors and airmen and Marines
have reacted to, is to try to give them that which they need to make
the right decision, should they feel a necessity to go ahead and have
to apply lethal force.

RAY SUAREZ: And what kinds of techniques are we talking about?

pretty complicated. But, in reality, what you're trying to do is give
a soldier those tools that he needs to be able to try to identify
those folks that are, in fact, a threat to him, as opposed to those
folks that, quite frankly, are -- are just confused, because they have
run into a checkpoint that wasn't there earlier in the day, wasn't
there the day before.

And what we want to do is provide our soldiers and Marines with
the tools they need and the time that they need to make the decision
on whether or not that is a threat to them, or whether or not that's
just an individual who, quite frankly, is confused.

We have got leaders talking to soldiers, talking over
techniques, looking for what are those things that you should look
for, something as simple as counting the number of heads in a vehicle,
understanding that a majority of SVBIEDs, if not all -- and those are
the suicide vehicle borne improvised explosive devices -- are, in
fact, driven by a single individual, and that, if you have two or
three individuals in the vehicle, if you can give the soldier both the
capability and the time to go ahead and count the heads, he can make a
much better decision on whether this is someone who just is purely
confused, or someone who is truly a threat to him and those around him
at the checkpoint, or wherever he may be in Baghdad or anywhere in

RAY SUAREZ: This morning, I heard a soldier speak, with a little
frustration to a reporter, about what he called whack-a-mole. You hit
the insurgents, the people you're fighting against, in one place, and
they pop up somewhere else.

With all the reinforcement of Baghdad, have you been playing
whack-a-mole, having to worry about whether the bad guys will pop up
somewhere else, if you concentrate your efforts in the Iraqi capital?

frustration that we all have, from the standpoint of the insurgency
popping up in different locations.

But -- but the key here is, is to turn portions of the
population, increasing portions of the population, to the side of the
government, to the side of the Iraqi government. And, as we increase
those areas, the insurgents will find it much difficult, because
the people see in their government a legitimacy. The people see in
their government a government that's going to make life better for all

And, when that happens, it will be very, very difficult for the
terrorists to operate anywhere in Iraq. This isn't something that
happens overnight. We have to gain -- the government has to gain
credibility with its citizen. And we're doing everything we possibly
can to help them.

RAY SUAREZ: Well, you have talked about building confidence in
the government, fewer accidental killings, electricity and water. What
part, in this overall effort, does something like the new Army field
manual play, that tells soldiers what they can and can't do in the
treatment of prisoners?

important addition to our doctrine. And -- and that's exactly what it
is. The field manual gives us guides that -- for us to use.

I haven't had an opportunity to -- to read it yet, nor be
briefed on it. Our folks are working very, very hard to put together
all that information now. But it's part of this constant evolution, as
-- as we adjust our way of -- of fighting to this new way of war, a
way of war that I -- I don't think will be something that we just see
here in Iraq.

I -- I think the whole idea of war has changed forever. And --
and, along with that field manual and many, many others, we're going
to have to look at the way we do things across the board to fight this
kind of conflict.

RAY SUAREZ: Lieutenant General Peter Chiarelli, from Baghdad,
thanks a lot for being with us.


Debate on Military Tribunals:

JIM LEHRER: They follow reactions to the president's terror
trials proposals.

Judy Woodruff is in charge of that.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Just weeks before Congress goes home for the
midterm elections, President Bush yesterday dramatically raised the
legal and political stakes in the fight over how to deal with the
prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.

In addition to the 400-plus prisoners already held there, the
president said that 14 would be moved from CIA secret prisons to
face justice at Guantanamo. They include three major figures: Khalid
Shaikh Mohammed, the alleged mastermind behind the 9/11 plot; Abu
Zubaydah, an aide to Osama bin Laden; and Ramzi Binalshibh, another
9/11 plotter.

The president's announcement yesterday represented his fullest
response to the June Supreme Court decision that overturned the
administration's plan for military tribunals to try the Guantanamo
detainees. Now Congress takes up the issue of whether the detainees
would be tried under the provisions of the Uniform Code of Military
Justice or by rules that would give government prosecutors far

We get our congressional response now from two senators. John
Sununu is a New Hampshire Republican. He's a member of the Foreign
Relations Committee. And Jack Reed is a Rhode Island Democrat. He's on
the Armed Services Committee.

Gentlemen, thank you for being with us. And, Senator Reed, to
you first. The president has sent this program, his proposal to the
Congress. He's saying: I need this in order to prosecute these
terrorists. Do you believe this is the right way to go about
prosecuting them?

SEN. JACK REED (D), Rhode Island: Well, currently, Judy, the
debate is among Republicans, so than between Republicans and
Democrats. Senator John McCain, Senator Lindsey Graham have pointed
out that, in order to provide a -- a legitimate process, that
modifications must be made to the president's proposal. That sentiment
was echoed today by the uniformed military lawyers who testified
before the House of Representatives.

These gentlemen have dedicated their lives to serving their
country in uniform, and they understand that this is not just about
prosecuting these individuals who committed heinous crimes, but it's
also about ensuring that, if Americans fall into this type of
captivity, they will have fair procedures, also. So, I would take the
advice of the uniformed military, the advice that both Senator McCain
and Senator Warner, and Senator Graham, are urging on the president.

JUDY WOODRUFF: But it's our understanding that these senators --
you mentioned McCain -- you mentioned Senator Graham -- are -- are --
have been asked by the Republican leadership to take another look, so
that they can try to come up with a compromise. Let me turn to you,
Senator Sununu. At this point, do you think what the president has
proposed is something that you can accept?

SEN. JOHN SUNUNU (R), New Hampshire: Well, I think it's unlikely
that it would be passed through the House and the Senate in the exact
form that the -- the president has put it forward. And, in fact,
though, I -- I think it will be similar to what the president has
proposed. The differences that are being discussed really focus on
only two areas. I think there's very large agreement among Democrats,
Republicans, Senators McCain and Graham, as Senator Reed mentioned,
and the White House on all the components, except for the specific
rules of evidence and the use of hearsay in a trial.

But other than that, I think there's pretty broad agreement. My
guess is, there will be some modification made in -- in at least one,
if not both of those areas, before it's sent to the president. But the
key is that we get a good statutory framework in place that is
consistent with the Supreme Court ruling, so that these trials can

JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, let's talk about those two specific points,
because they are going to be getting a lot of attention. Senator
Reed, on the hearsay evidence, where do you come down on that? And --
and where do others in your party come down on that?

SEN. JACK REED: Well, I will just speak for myself, but I will
echo the comments of the uniformed military officers today, who
insisted, in their testimony, that these rules that would disqualify
hearsay and also allow examination of the evidence before the tribunal
by both sides are the rules that they favor, because they're
consistent with not only our international obligations, but also with
the legitimate procedure.

And there's another point I think John alluded to, is, we don't
want to get in a situation where we pass defective legislation that
doesn't really bring these individuals to justice, but simply allows
another process of appeals all the way to the Supreme Court, and
rejection again by the Supreme Court.

We have got to get this right. I think we can, but it requires
modification of the president's proposal. And one final point, too, I
think important -- we're talking now about punishing people who have
done very heinous things. But they can be detained, regardless of
these tribunals. As long as they maintain a -- a threat to the United
States, under generally accepted principles of law, they can be
detained. So, we're talking about the issue of how we adequately
punish them, not how we keep them out of harm's way, of harming us.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, Senator Sununu, let me come back to you on
the -- on the point that you yourself raised a minute ago. Are you, at
this point, in agreement with some of the moderates in your own party,
who -- who say, have been saying, that they have difficulty, serious
difficulty, and want changes in the approach that the administration
had been applying, and that is largely included in this approach?

SEN. JOHN SUNUNU: I have not read Senator Graham's proposal, but
I think it's fair to say I certainly have concerns in both of these
areas. There are several things that we want to accomplish. First, we
want to set a good example. Senator Reed mentioned, if -- if we're
allowing evidence to be used in court that defense attorneys or those
on trial can have no access to, can't see, then what is going to
happen if American service members or American citizens are taken into
custody in another country around the world? I think it -- it runs
against American -- fundamental American beliefs to have someone tried
on evidence that they can never see.

JUDY WOODRUFF: So, you're in...


JUDY WOODRUFF: ... disagreement with the president on that

SEN. JOHN SUNUNU: Well, I -- I think that there -- there ought
to be a way to ensure that this element of due process is -- is
provided. Second, we want to make sure that those that are conducting
the prosecutions believe it's a system that will work. Senator Reed
mentioned the -- the testimony by the Army Judge Advocate General. And
-- and the simple question I would want to pose to those individuals,
those responsible for prosecutions at Gitmo, as well, is, with these
rules, with these procedures that have been suggested, that would
allow sharing of evidence, in some cases in unclassified or summarized
form, will this system still allow you to prosecute effectively, to
prosecute fully?

And -- and most of those that have been asked that question,
both at Gitmo and here in hearings in Congress, have said, yes, we can
conduct trials, conduct them effectively, get prosecutions, even with
some of these accommodations. So, there are a couple of areas that
need to be addressed. I think they -- they can be addressed. And I
think we can get a framework in place that will allow these
prosecutions to move forward.

JUDY WOODRUFF: If that's the case, Senator Reed, then what is --
what is your concern?

SEN. JACK REED: Well, my concern is that the president, just a
few weeks before the election, suddenly has transferred prisoners from
places around the world to Guantanamo, and now is demanding, as he has
so often done, sort of, take it or leave it; it's my way or the

And, frank -- that's not the way to do good legislation. And it
does reflect, I think, a consistent position by the administration to
treat our international obligations sort of cavalierly. And I think
that has led us to lots of problems around the world. It contributed
to -- in part to Abu Ghraib.

And it does ultimately jeopardize the safety of our military
forces, as Senator Sununu pointed out. And, when you have individuals
who are experienced, like Senator McCain and Senator Graham, military
experience, and uniformed officers who are saying, we have to abide by
these provisions that are generally outlined in the UCMJ, that's

And, if the White House would quickly accede to that view of the
military and of these experienced individual senators, then I think we
could get something done rather expeditiously.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Senator Sununu, you agree with Senator Reed that
the president's attitude is essentially, my way or the highway, and
that he is treating these international obligations, in Senator Reed's
words, in a cavalier way?

SEN. JOHN SUNUNU: No. I -- I don't think he's treating them in a
cavalier way.

Look, he did the right thing in moving these 14 prisoners to --
to Guantanamo, and -- and suspending the operations of the overseas
detention facilities. He has done the right thing in proposing a -- a
commission system. Even if we don't yet agree on all the details, we
need this legislation, or similar legislation, to be passed, so that
prosecutions can begin.

And I think he's done the right thing in saying, we need to move
forward with these trials. We need to bring those in Guantanamo Bay
for whom we have evidence of their committing and supporting and
planning terrorist acts, bring them to trials, and -- and bring them
to justice.

I -- I think those are the right things for the president to do,
to do at this time. If he had waited two months, waited until after
the elections, the critics will -- would have said, well, this is long
overdue; he should have done this months ago. Now is the right time.
It's a good starting point. And I think we can get this done in the
next couple of weeks.

JUDY WOODRUFF: But, at the risk of repeating, and just to
clarify, you are not in agreement with him on some of these important
points of how these prosecutions would take place?

SEN. JOHN SUNUNU: I think it's fair to say that, looking at the
legislation, I would like to see some modifications. And I think it's
likely that some modifications will be made, in either the House or
the Senate, before it gets to his desk.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Senator Reed, you mentioned politics. You said --
you point out, the president has put this out there two months before
the election.

There are observers out there right now who are saying, this
puts the Democrats in a tough spot -- the president, Republicans
trying to paint the Democrats as soft on terror. And this permits the
administration, if Democrats oppose this sort of a strict structure,
if you will, of trying these detainees -- if Democrats oppose that,
don't you run the risk of falling right into this -- this descriptive,
this portrait that the Republicans are trying to paint you into?

SEN. JACK REED: Well, I think what we have to do is the best
possible legislation, not just for the short run, the next several
weeks leading up to the election, but in the long run.

And I think what is very significant and very important is that,
if we follow the advice of the military officers who have dedicated
their life, not only to the armed services, but to military justice,
then, we will disagree on these important points with the White House,
and will insist, not on a partisan base, but obviously bipartisan
basis, led by people like Senator Warner and others, on legislation
that will both protect our security, and also give us a legitimate
political process, will give us the opportunity in -- in the world to
claim that we are true to our principles, without sacrificing our
security. So, I think this is a case where, if we stick to principles,
we will be fine.

JUDY WOODRUFF: So, you're not worried about the Republican
mantra right now, and that this -- that Democrats are soft -- I mean,
we have heard the term Defeatocrat -- and that the president's
proposal here, that it -- it runs the risks, for Democrats, of placing
you further into -- painting you further into that corner?

SEN. JACK REED: Well, I would be concerned about the risks
that our military, our soldiers, our -- our Marines, our sailors, our
air men and women, are running right now in Iraq and across the globe,
and also in the future.

And I think, if we're true to -- to their sacrifice, to their
dedication, we will do the right thing here; we won't be swayed by
what some have characterized as merely political attacks. I think we
will try to come up with legislation -- and I think Senator Sununu
suggests that we can -- that embodies the best principles of this
country, without sacrificing the security of this nation.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Senator Sununu, so, what do you think is going to
happen here? You said -- I think you said a minute ago that you think
a compromise can be reached.

But the president has put a very tight timetable on this. He
said he wants it done in the next few weeks, before Congress goes

SEN. JOHN SUNUNU: I don't know what's going to happen. And --
and, to be very direct, I have spent a good part of today talking to
colleagues, trying to get a sense of what they think might happen. I
think the most likely process would be for the Armed Services
Committee, led by Senator Warner, to put together a package based on
the president's proposal, but containing some modifications, a package
that can get a very strong, very strong majority of votes in that

And I think that would be a good basis for legislation to be
brought to the floor of the Senate. I think, if you have a strong,
very strong majority in the Armed Services Committee, you're going to
minimize the number of amendments that are offered on the floor,
minimize the opportunity for obstruction by -- by either side, and get
something done.

JUDY WOODRUFF: But with some differences from what the president
has proposed?

SEN. JOHN SUNUNU: I have said several times, it's just hard to
imagine the president's proposal, exactly as he submitted it, passing
both the House and the Senate, and ending up on his desk.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And -- and...

SEN. JOHN SUNUNU: You're going to see some changes.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Senator Reed, just quickly, if that is what
emerges from Senate Armed Services, is -- would that pass, do you

SEN. JACK REED: Oh, I think Senator Sununu has got it just about
right. If Senator Warner and Senator Levin and Senator McCain, Senator
Graham and others on the committee can work and constructively respond
to the concerns of our uniformed military lawyers, and produce a
legislation that has a strong bipartisan support, then, I think it
will move quickly through here.

The president could help that, though, by being cooperative, in
terms of recognizing the legitimate concerns raised about his

JUDY WOODRUFF: We hear you both.

Senator Jack Reed, Senator John Sununu, we thank you very much
for being with us.

SEN. JACK REED: Thank you.

SEN. JOHN SUNUNU: Thank you.


Another al-Qaeda Tape Released:

KATIE COURIC: With al-Qaeda, timing is everything and
America's number one enemy demonstrated that again today. Just as
President Bush was telling America we are safer than we were before
9/11, al-Qaeda terrorists put out a message of their own - 'We're
still here.' The message came in the form of a videotape we hadn't
seen before. Jim Axelrod has the pictures and the story.

JIM AXELROD: Al Qaeda is now out with its own run-up to the
fifth anniversary of 9/11, a videotape claiming to show Osama bin
Laden and the 9/11 hijackers planning the attacks. The Arab network Al
Jazeera broadcast it, saying it reveals for the first time the alleged
coordinator of the attacks, Ramzi Binalshibh meeting with Bin Laden.
Alshibh, by the way, is one of the 14 terror subjects just transferred
to Guantanamo Bay for a future trial.

Clearly, it's bad timing for the president, who just today in
his fourth speech in eight days about the war on terror promised to
bring Bin Laden to custody.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: We will keep steady pressure,
unrelenting pressure on al-Qaeda and its associates. We will deny
them safe haven. We will find them and we will bring them to justice.

AXELROD: It wasn't just U.S. enemies that interrupted Mr.
Bush's momentum. His strongest ally did, as well. British Prime
Minister Tony Blair announced he'll step down within a year, under
pressure from his own party, partly for his support of the war in

TONY BLAIR (British Prime Minister): I would have preferred to
do this in my own way, but it has been pretty obvious from what many
of my Cabinet colleagues have said.

AXELROD: As for the al-Qaeda tape, a new CBS News/New York
Times poll suggests why it might spell trouble for the president. A
majority of Americans say the U.S. cannot win the war on terror if Bin
Laden is not killed or captured. And fewer than half are confident
that he will be. That's not good news for a president who's been
speaking of little else lately about why his war no terror will

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: We need to do everything in our power
to stop the next attack. And so America has gone on the offense across
the world.

AXELROD: Well, you can certainly tell there's an election
coming up and the rhetoric sure is getting sharper. The Democrats are
out with a name for the president's series of speeches. They're
calling it the 'fear and smear tour.'

KATIE COURIC: Well, Jim, apart from the name-calling, the war
on terror is consuming both parties on Capitol Hill these days, isn't

AXELROD: Yeah, there's just about a month till they're going to
break for a little pre-midterm election campaigning, so if your issue
isn't terror-related, forget it. Immigration - huge issue, right?
Forget it. Right now, Katie, it's all terror all the time.

KATIE COURIC: All right. Jim Axelrod. Jim, thanks so much.

The Home Front:

KATIE COURIC: President Bush says Iraq is a big part of the war
on terror and two American soldiers and a Marine have been killed
in action there. With casualties rising, the president's approval
ratings are falling. The latest CBS News/New York Times poll shows
just 36 percent of Americans approve of the job he's doing. Support
for the war is slipping, even in places where not long ago everyone
backed it. Here's our national correspondent Byron Pitts.

BYRON PITTS: It's faith, family and the Corps.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SALES CLERK: We give a military discount to
show our appreciation for what they're doing for us.

PITTS: Jacksonville is home to Camp Lejeune, the largets Marine
corps base on the east coast. But even here, support for the war may
be waning. Marine corporal John Miller.

CORPORAL JOHN MILLER (Marine Corps): There's a lot of people
that think we've been there too long, but personally I think we should
stay there until they have an established government.

PITTS: Breakfast Shift manager, Lily Cantrell. Do you still
support the war?

LILY CANTRELL: (Hesitates for about five seconds): Yes.

PITTS: Three or four years ago, would you have hesitated that
long to answer the question?


PITTS: What's changed in three or four years?

LILY CANTRELL: It's just that things keep getting worse and

PITTS: A CBS News/New York Times poll found 65 percent of
Americans disapprove of the way George Bush is handling the war in
Iraq. Even some life-long conservatives are no longer hearing the
president's message.

JIM VAN RYPER (sp) (Retired Marine Corps Colonel): I turned him
off. I tuned him out.

PITTS: Retired Marine Corps Colonel Jim Van Ryper is a
Christian, card-carrying member of the NRA who voted for President
Bush twice. But as Marines have died in Iraq, his confidence in
the Bush administration died as well.

JIM VAN RYPER (sp) (Retired Marine Corps Colonel): If they had
done it their way and they succeeded, I couldn't be talking to you
like this. They did it their way, they failed, and they won't admit

PITTS: And that's what burns you?

JIM VAN RYPER (sp) (Retired Marine Corps Colonel): That's
arrogance. And I don't mind arrogance, except when there's dead
bodies as a result.

PITTS: So this November, for the first time, Colonel Van Ryper
will vote for Democrats across the board.

JIM VAN RYPER (sp) (Retired Marine Corps Colonel): I've voted
Republican nearly all my life. I'm very conservative. I'm still
conservative. My hope is that the Democrats win the House.

PITTS: Van Ryper's twin brother is a retired Marine general and
his love for the Corps remains strong. This is very personal for you?

JIM VAN RYPER (sp) (Retired Marine Corps Colonel): Yes, sir. I
had a son there. I've got a nephew there now. It's personal.

PITTS: If you could sit across from President Bush, what would
you say to him?

JIM VAN RYPER (sp) (Retired Marine Corps Colonel): Sir, I'm

PITTS: Here in a place where war is so very personal and faith
so very deep, the president is preaching to a choir that no longer
seems quite so willing to believe.

Byron Pitts, CBS News, Jacksonville, North Carolina.


Another Al Qaeda Video Released:

BRIAN WILLIAMS: Today al Qaeda proved once again it still has
the power to toy with a super power. As this nation prepares to mark
the fifth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, there is new video tape out
tonight - it aired on the Al Jazeera Television Network today - and it
shows Osama bin Laden and some of the 9/11 hijackers purportedly
training for the job they later carried out - a job that killed close
to 3,000 Americans.

And while there may be videotape to come there may also be
clues in these new videotape pictures for investigators. We begin our
reporting on this new development tonight with NBC's Lisa Myers in our
Washington bureau.

LISA MYERS: There is no explicit threat of another attack on
this tape. But this propaganda video clearly is meant to conjure up
frightening images for Americans. The al Qaeda video popped up on Al
Jazeera this afternoon. For the first time it shows Bin Laden and
other senior al Qaeda leaders with some of the 9/11 conspirators, and
claims to show some of the hijackers training to take over planes
using only knives.

Intelligence analysts tell NBC News they believe the Bin Laden
scenes were shot sometime around 9/11. Some describe this - Bin Laden
greeting 9/11 planner Ramzi bin Al-Shibh as a return of the conquering
hero after the attacks. Others believe this meeting occurred before
the attacks.

MICHAEL SHEEHAN (NBC News terrorism analyst): It's very
interesting that they held these tapes for five years and are now
releasing them obviously to get a propaganda boost for the
organization as they try to motivate their faithful and intimidate the

MYERS: Bin Al-Shibh was captured four years ago. Just
yesterday the president announced that he and others had been moved to
Guantanamo. If Bin Al-Shibh is put on trial, as the president
proposes, this tape could become evidence. It clearly labels Bin Al-
Shibh the coordinator of the 9/11 attacks.

Also new today, so-called martyrdom videos by two hijackers,
labeled 'the martyrs of the Manhattan raid.' This hijacker was a
Muslim man on the first plane to hit the towers. This man, a muscle
man on the second plane.

ROGER CRESSEY (NBC News terrorism analyst): It's all about
searing into our minds the imagery of 9/11 and reminding the jihadi
faithful that the fight is still ongoing.

MYERS: This is the second tape released by al Qaeda in less
than a week. Last Saturday this tape featured an appeal from an
American, Adam Gadahn, urging other Americans to join the ranks of al

Americans and other non-believers to Islam, wherever they are.

MYERS: NBC News confirmed today that the U.S. has indicated
Gadahn on terrorism charges and that some prosecutors want to charge
him with treason.

U.S. intelligence officials expect at least one al Qaeda
tape over the next few days. And they say it is significant that no
current video of Bin Laden has been released in almost two years.

WILLIAMS: All right. Lisa Myers in our Washington bureau.
Lisa, thank you for that reporting.

We just heard in that set-up piece from NBC News
counterterrorism analyst, Roger Cressey - he is a veteran of the
National Security Council in the Bush White House. He's with us from
Washington for on this. And, Roger, let's go back to the central
point in the opening of the broadcast tonight, that even though - as
people have pointed out - these are people living in caves in some
cases. This still shows, at minimum, they have the power to toy with
the United States.

ROGER CRESSEY: That's right, Brian. They have the ability to
get our attention at the drop of a video. It demonstrates the
resiliency of their public relations network and also demonstrates the
strength of their propaganda right now, which is why al Qaeda
continues to publish these videos.

WILLIAMS: Now what else can we glean from looking at these

CRESSEY: Not a whole lot of actionable intelligence. I think
this was aimed at a western audience. Look at the English subtitles.
It was the imagery of Bin Laden greeting the conquering hero, like Bin
Al-Shibh identifying himself yet again with the 9/11 attack. Those
are images that will resonate in a global audience. And they are
truly intended for an American audience especially, Brian.

WILLIAMS: All right. Our national security analyst Roger
Cressey with us tonight from Washington. Roger, thanks, as always.

Guantanamo Prisoners:

BRIAN WILLIAMS: A day after President Bush announced that some
top terrorism detainees are now at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, awaiting
military trials, the military's own top lawyers said today they'd
still have objections to the administration's approach to those
tribunals. The story from NBC's Chip Reid.

CHIP REID: In Atlanta today, President Bush put the burden on
Congress to make sure al Qaeda detainees, including the alleged
mastermind of 9/11, face trial.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: The sooner that Congress authorizes
the military commissions that I have called for, the sooner Khalid
Sheik Mohammed will receive the justice he deserves.

REID: Khalid Sheik Mohammed is one of 14 high-value al Qaeda
prisoners transferred from CIA detention centers to Guantanamo Bay.
In June, the Supreme Court struck down the administration's
commissions for trying suspected terrorists for not giving them
adequate legal rights.

Today, a panel of the Pentagon's top uniformed lawyers said the
president's new proposal may also be unconstitutional because it would
allow the use of evidence obtained through coercion and severely limit
defendants' access to the evidence against them.

BRIG. GEN. JAMES WALKER (staff judge advocate, U.S. Marine
Corps): I simply believe the right to see the evidence against you
and to be present when evidence is presented are fundamental to a full
and fair trial.

REID: Three influential Senate Republicans (Warner, Graham,
McCain) say they, too, have concerns about the constitutionality of
the president's bill and are writing their own. Senator Lindsey
Graham, a judge in the Air Force Reserve, says in a statement, 'I do
not think we can afford to again cut legal corners that will result in
federal court rejection of our work product.'

Republicans and Democrats say they're hopeful a compromise can
be reached. In part that's because, with elections so close, no one
in Congress wants to look soft on terrorism.

SEN. HARRY REID (D-Nev., Senate minority leader): We need these
very, very bad people brought to justice.

CHIP REID: Republicans said today there's no doubt they will
pass a bill quickly. As one aide put it, 'We're not going home to
campaign and leave Khalid Sheik Mohammed hanging around without a way
to bring him to justice.' Chip Reid, NBC News, the Capitol.

Developments in Iraq:

BRIAN WILLIAMS: In Iraq today, and with some fanfare, the
United States today officially transferred control of part of that
nation's military forces to its new government. The problem is the
ceremony only involved one of Iraq's army divisions and its tiny air
force and navy. The navy includes inflatable boats.

The handover coincided with a rash of new insurgent attacks,
mostly aimed at the Iraqi police force in Baghdad. At least 17
people, most of them police officers, were killed.


Democrats and Republicans Spar on Security Strategy:

BRIT HUME: There's an old axiom in politics that the party in
power tends to point with pride to its achievements, and the political
opposition views the same events with alarm. So it was today. As the
president was pointing to accomplishments in the war on terrorism,
Democrats in Washington were viewing the security situation with
alarm. Congressional correspondent Major Garrett reports.

MAJOR GARRETT: Unlike previous election cycles, Democrats this
year appear eager to go toe to toe with the Bush White House on
national security. The Senate Democratic leader blasted today's
presidential post-9/11 progress report describing Mr. Bush's
antiterror efforts as a lot of political theater.

SENATOR HARRY REID (D-NV): (From tape.) It's a cynical, but
typical move from the campaigner-in-chief. There's a reason five
years after 9/11 that America is not as safe as it needs to be. It's
because Republicans play politics of national security but fail when
it comes to the policy of national security.

GARRETT: New York's junior senator and likely '08 presidential
candidate Hillary Clinton brandished a new six-point Democratic
national security agenda.

SENATOR HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY): (From tape.) This is a very
stark choice for Americans. You can have all the tough rhetoric you
want by sticking with the other side because they're experts at it, or
we can start being serious, thoughtful, strong, and smart.

GARRETT: The Democratic plan calls for a gradual withdrawal of
U.S. forces from Iraq, new laws legalizing terrorist surveillance and
trials, increased funding for first responders, special forces
troops, tighter port and rail and mass transit security, and
congressional oversight of the intelligence community.

Democrats pounded again on port and rail security, labeling
current administration efforts an insult to the victims of 9/11 and
their survivors.

SENATOR CHARLES SCHUMER (D-NY): (From tape.) It is almost
blasphemy to the memory of those who were lost that we only inspect 5
percent of the containers that come into our harbors. It is
forgetting everything they suffered when we see that there is
virtually no rail security or truck security done to prevent another
terrorist act from occurring.

GARRETT: In a speech to the National Press Club, Delaware
Democrat Joseph Biden, another likely '08 presidential candidate,
previewed the Democrats' midterm slogan on national security.

SENATOR JOSEPH BIDEN (D-DE): (From tape.) Are we safer today
than we were five years ago?

GARRETT: Playing off the upcoming five-year anniversary of
9/11, Biden said the answer was self-evident.

SENATOR BIDEN: (From tape.) Five years ago President Bush
pledged to capture Osama bin Laden, and then he redirected our
military away from Afghanistan and toward Iraq. Today, bin Laden
remains at large and his videotape messages inspire others to make
attacks around the world.

GARRETT: In response to this Democratic offensive, the
conservative group Progress for America today released his TV ad to
air on national cable and in Missouri, home to a tough reelection
battle for GOP incumbent Jim Talent.

COMMERCIAL: (From tape.) Many seem to have forgotten the evil
that happened only five years ago. They would cut and run in the
Middle East, leaving al Qaeda to attack us again.

GARRETT: Democrats say this new strategy is no lark, but one
rooted in than a year of consistent polling data. The liberal
group Democracy Corps sent a memorandum today to congressional
Democrats summarizing what it said is the national mood on Iraq, and I
quote: 'Voters are worried about the Republicans staying in Iraq
too long than about Democrats withdrawing too soon.' Brit?

HUME: Major, thank you.

Hearings on Military Commissions Move Forward:

HUME: While that political war of words went on, the House
Armed Services Committee went to work today on the president's request
for a congressionally approved way to put terror suspects on trial.
As Pentagon correspondent Mike Emanuel reports, one sticking point may
be the question of how much sensitive information such defendants may
be entitled to know as they prepare their defense.

MIKE EMANUEL: Some of the military's top lawyers appeared
before the House Armed Services Committee to answer questions about
the new White House plan to prosecute suspected terrorists. Committee
Chairman Duncan Hunter said any military court set up to handle these
cases must allow the government to protect intelligence sources.

REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA): (From tape.) And while we need to
provide basic fairness in our prosecutions, we must also preserve the
ability of our warfighters to operate effectively on the battlefield.

EMANUEL: Hunter's argument matches the White House position on
the issue, but some of the Pentagon's judge advocates general, or
JAGs, took issue with the portion of the White House plan to
potentially restrict a defendant's access to evidence because in their
opinion that could violate the requirements of the Geneva Conventions.

MAJ GEN SCOTT BLACK (Army Judge Advocate General): (From tape.)
I believe the accused should see that evidence, sir.

BRIG GEN JAMES WALKER (USMC Judge Advocate General): (From
tape.) I concur with my colleagues that if we get to a point where
the sole evidence against an accused is classified, he must be able to
see that evidence. That's just essentially one of those elements of a
full and fair trial.

EMANUEL: But Chairman Hunter argued that could hamper
prosecuting these cases.

REP. HUNTER: (From tape.) Some of these acts of complicity in
terrorist operations or plots are very small pieces. The guy that
drives the car, the guy that delivers the document, and you don't have
in many cases other broad evidence. That's enough to convict them and
yet you're saying that if that's the only piece you have, you have to
let them walk. Is that right?

MAJ GEN BLACK: (From tape.) If you get to the end of that
trial, yes sir, you do.

EMANUEL: The administration was forced to create a new method
for trying suspected terrorists captured in the war on terror after
the Supreme Court ruled in June the military commissions originally
set up to try detainees were unconstitutional and violated
international law. A top Justice Department official argued these
trials under the new plan would be quite similar to court martial
procedures conducted by military lawyers, but adjusted for terrorists.

STEVEN BRADBURY (Acting Asst Attorney General): (From tape.)
These military commission procedures would provide for fundamentally
fair trials. The accused will know the charges against him. He will
be presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
He will have a right to counsel, including an appointed military
defense counsel and the ability to retain private counsel.

EMANUEL: And the administration argues these terrorists will
have other fundamental legal rights.

BRADBURY: (From tape.) The accused will have the right to at
least two appeals from any conviction, including an appeal to an
Article III court. And he may not be tried a second time for the same

EMANUEL: The new plan would increase the number of military
officers hearing a case from three to five. In death cases, those
would require a minimum of 12 military officers to vote unanimously
before capital punishment could be imposed. Brit?

HUME: Mike, thank you.

Former Iranian President Tours US:

HUME: Former Iranian President Mohammed Khatami's tour of the
United States brought him to Washington, D.C., today after a talk at
the University of Virginia. His visit has met with considerable
criticism from those who believe he presided over a brutal regime when
he was in office and at the same time was a leading exporter of
terrorism. Correspondent James Rosen reports.

JAMES ROSEN: Appearing at the University of Virginia, the
former Iranian president took aim at President Bush, albeit without
ever naming him, and at the doctrine of preemptive war.

MOHAMMED KHATAMI (Former Iranian President): (From tape,
translated.) The unilateralists who claim world leadership blatantly
declared new forms of war aimed at globalization of power and
resources and results in statements such as whomever is not with us is
against us. This us is a small circle encompassing a few that have
the right to arrive at any verdict they please regarding the ones they
consider the other.

ROSEN: Khatami claimed the U.S. in 2003 spurned his proposal
for dealing with Saddam Hussein, a plan Khatami said had the support
of the UN, the Saudis, the Egyptians, and other regional powers, and
that the U.S. is still paying the price.

KHATAMI: (From tape, translated.) The result was the
transference of the terrorism that was located in Afghanistan to Iraq.

ROSEN: Khatami's two-week tour of the U.S. makes him the most
senior Iranian to venture beyond UN headquarters since the late 1970s.
His visit is controversial because ever since then the U.S. has
officially designated Iran a state sponsor of terrorism. Mitt Romney,
the governor of Massachusetts, where Khatami will travel this weekend,
ordered state agencies not to provide security for Khatami's
entourage. The U.S. government approved Khatami's visa and is
providing security for him, but the State Department says there are no
plans for administration officials to meet with Khatami.

Last week, a spokesman was pressed on why Khatami isn't being
detained and interrogated.

SEAN MCCORMACK (State Dept Spokesman): (From tape.) We would
hope that these organizations and the individuals attending these
events might take the opportunity to ask him hard questions about
Iran's role in the world.

ROSEN: (From tape.) You tell us you're engaged in a war on
terror. You tell us that this man was president of a country that was
the leading state sponsor of terror for several years, and yet you
tell us that when you have him in your midst and on our soil you have
no intention of interrogating him for the intelligence value that
would provide in this war on terror. Does that make sense?

MCCORMACK: (From tape.) James, I answered the question.

ROSEN: Although as President Khatami pressed for some
liberalizing reforms and called for a two-state solution in the Middle
East, the leader routinely described as a moderate also routinely
attacked Israel as an illegal state, and last year declared his,
quote, 'love' for Hezbollah. Iranian born human rights activists
protested his visit to the capital.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: (From tape, translated.) I started his
presidency in a cell and I ended it in a cell.

ROSEN: While some other observers welcomed it.

ROSS POURZAL (Alliance of Progressive Iranians): (From tape.)
He generally brought civility to politics.

ROSEN: Later, in a news conference at the National Cathedral,
Khatami indicated Iran is willing to discuss a suspension of its
uranium enrichment program, as the UN Security Council has ordered,
but not before further talks begin, as the Council also demanded. He
also made this claim about the UN's nuclear watchdog, the
International Atomic Energy Agency.

KHATAMI: (From tape, translated.) For the present time, the
IAEA has not found any evidence that Iran has pursued a non-peaceful
nuclear program.

ROSEN: In fact, the IAEA reported last month that it could not
confirm the peaceful nature of Iran's nuclear program, and the agency
has raised serious questions, Brit, in the past about a military
dimension to that program.

HUME: Now, what about the planned visit of the current Iranian
president to come to the UN and his challenge to debate the president

ROSEN: Well, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is scheduled to come to the
United Nations General Assembly on September 19th, in New York, and
speak on that date, as is President Bush, also on that date. We don't
know if that will stay the way it is. Ahmadinejad has issued
previously a challenge to debate President Bush live and on
television. Now he's proposing that the UN be the forum for that.
The UN Secretary General Kofi Annan has said he's just not going to
get into this. We doubt, as the White House said today, that there
will be any kind of steel cage grudge match between the two presidents
at the UN, Brit.

HUME: All right, James. Thank you.

9-11 SPECIAL, CBS TV, 10 PM, SEPTEMBER 06, 2006:

Five Years - How Safe Are We?

KATIE COURIC: Five years after the deadliest attack ever on
American soil, U.S. soldiers are at war in two countries. Americans
still feel threatened at home and the stakes couldn't be higher.

Good evening, everyone, I'm Katie Couric. Tonight, we'll take a
hard look at the war on terrorism. I talked to President Bush about
it earlier today. It's a battle he calls the decisive struggle of
this century. We'll have that interview, and we'll take our own look
at what's working, what's not and what's next.

What happened here at Ground Zero on 9/11 is part of our history
and our memory. Five years later, the question for all Americans is:
How safe are we now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we will ultimately suffer some kind
of attack again. I'm a survivor of 9/11. I was standing at the base
of the World Trade Center when the first plane hit. I think 9/11 was
a defining moment for our country and that it was the day that global
terrorism arrived in the United States.

As a father of three children, I speculate about what the future
holds for my kids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a clash of cultures and we don't
understand folks who want to destroy our way of life. I have been in
the horse business for 40 years. We need to try to understand why
this small group of people is so dedicated to destroying us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's important for people to obviously
understand that not all Muslims are terrorists. Traveling since 9/11
has been a little frustrating; nine out of ten times on the security
line and I'm usually plucked out of it and my bags are searched, and
while it's frustrating, I understand the need for security and how
much is it helping, that remains to be seem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are small inconveniences when you're
thinking about trying to make the country a little safer. I'm a
letter carrier for the United States postal facility that came under
attack by anthrax, two of the employees passed away.

It used to be we only had to worry about dog bites, bad weather,
now, we're worried about anthrax, bombs in mailboxes and no telling
what else they're going to do.

PRESIDENT BUSH: You're either with us or you're against us in
the fight against terror.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After 9/11 for America to defend itself,
war and conflict are going to happen. All three of my kids are
soldiers, two are in Iraq right now, one has just left the Army. I
think the war in Iraq is making us safer overall and that the world
knows we're going to defend our country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The war in Iraq has certainly cost us a lot
of goodwill around the world. I'm just not sure how we can fix that
problem militarily.

I'm a commercial airline pilot. My job is to keep that cockpit
safe, defend that cockpit at all costs. I'm not sure that they'll hit
us again on an airplane; there are certainly enough other easier
targets out there - shopping malls, universities, any type of sports
event. You can't defend that stuff 100 percent of the time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If another attack is attempted, we are
ready. We're always out there. We're always on duty. I'm part of a
brand new Coast Guard unit that's on the frontlines of homeland
security. The terrorist is able to reach out and touch us directly at
home and that's really what drives a lot of us who do the best that we
can to protect this country and citizens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On September 11th, we had about 11,000
members of the fire department, 343 were killed that day. You see a
lot of video of the clouds coming and people running; you don't see
any firemen running away. I'm a firefighter in Ladder 55 in the
Bronx. I think about September 11th every day. You look at your
watch and it's 9/11, it's 3:43, every day you think about it, every
day. Everybody agrees that we are going to get hit by another attack;
it's just a matter of where and when.

COURIC: George Bush's presidency has been defined by 9/11 and
by his stated mission to prevent another devastating attack. I asked
the President about the war on terror, threats to our own country and
the difficulties ahead.

First of all, thank you so much Mr. President for talking with

PRESIDENT BUSH: Glad to do it.

COURIC: We really, really appreciate it. As you well know,
Monday is the fifth anniversary of 9/11 and so many Americans are
thinking about that day, and I'm just wondering what your thoughts are
as we approach that anniversary?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, I approach it with mixed emotions. I
remember the horror and I remember the loss of life. I also remember
the lessons and the truth of the matter is September 11th affected my
thinking. It basically changed my attitude about the world and I
resolved around that time that I would do everything to protect the
American people, and frankly, has defined much of how I think as the

And so for me, it's not just a moment, you know, its really been
a change of life.

COURIC: A major shift in your philosophy of the world.

PRESIDENT BUSH: Yeah, it really has been.

COURIC: How so?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, it reminded me that we're in a major
struggle with extremists. Now, when you really think about why would
somebody kill 3,000 Americans? And I realize the struggle was
than just defeating al Qaeda; it is really an ideological war between
extremism and moderation and reasonableness, and it was a profound
moment, but I say that but it was no profound than the thousands
of our citizens who lost a loved one and so September the 11th is
going to be a sad moment, a day of remembrance and a day of

COURIC: You have said, Mr. President, that America is safer,
but we're not yet safe.


COURIC: When you think about the threats out there, what is
your biggest fear?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, my biggest fear is somebody will come in
and slip in this country and kill Americans, and I can't tell you how.
Obviously, there would be the spectacular and that would be the use of
some kind of biological weapon or weapon of mass destruction, but as
we learned recently from the British plots, people were going to get
on airplanes and blow up airplanes with innocent people flying to
America, and you know, one way to look at it is we have to be right
100 percent of the time in order to protect this country and they've
got to be right once. It's just a fact of life.

We're facing an enemy, Katie, that just doesn't care about
innocent life. I mean, they really are evil people.

COURIC: You consider Iraq the central front in the war against
terrorism, and I'm wondering, Mr. President, if sometimes in your
private moments you feel incredible frustration that this war is not
going better, and frustration that public support for it has eroded
pretty significantly in recent months.

PRESIDENT BUSH: First of all, I do think Iraq is a central
front in the war on terror and so does Osama bin Laden. There has
been some good moments and some bad moments in Iraq. There's been
some highlights, nearly 12 million people voting for government. What
was the other part of your question?

COURIC: I was saying are you frustrated? You mentioned the
positive developments, but certainly, you would acknowledge there are
a lot of negative things.

PRESIDENT BUSH: Absolutely, starting with the death of innocent
people and our soldiers; that's the hardest thing for me. I meet with
a lot of the families and I do the best I can to cry with them or
laugh with them if they want to laugh and hug them.

One thing most have said to me is don't leave before this job
gets done. They understand the stakes and so do our soldiers, and the
stakes are these that if we leave before the job is done, an enemy
that has attacked us will be emboldened. Allies and moderate people
will wonder where America's soul is.

COURIC: Does it concern you as we walk this corridor and see
portraits of people like President Reagan for whom your dad worked as
Vice President, some of your father's close colleagues have criticized
the war in Iraq, our efforts, particularly Brent Scowcroft, his former
national security adviser, very publicly saying in 2004, Iraq is a
failing venture.

PRESIDENT BUSH: Yeah. Does it bother me? No, not really.
When you do hard things, people are going to criticize you.

The American people expect me to make decisions based upon
principle, to deal with the threats that face our nation and not to
worry about criticism. Of course, I listen to it; that's part of the

COURIC: Conversely, I guess, Mr. President, while people admire
so much your ability to adhere to your principles, there is also
criticism as you say and there will always be critics that you're
inflexible and that your position doesn't change with changing

PRESIDENT BUSH: I am inflexible when it comes to making sure
that we don't get hit again, and you bet I'm going to remain strong
about making sure that the world we leave behind is a peaceful
world. The question is: Will we see the stakes clearly? And will we
use our influence to help moderate folks defeat radical extremism? My
answer is, yeah, I bet the American people and the American
governments that follow me will do that. I certainly hope so.

COURIC: We're going to talk about this some and have a
seat because, obviously, there's a lot to talk about.

You have said that we can't cut and run on than one
occasion; we have to stay until we win, otherwise we'll be fighting
the terrorists here at home on our own streets. So what do you mean
exactly by that, Mr. President?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, I mean that a defeat in Iraq will
embolden the enemy and will provide the enemy opportunity to
train, plan and to attack us. That's what I mean.

You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq
to the war on terror. I believe it as I told you, Osama bin Laden
believes it, but the American people have got to understand that a
defeat in Iraq, in other words, if this government there fails, the
terrorists will be emboldened and the radicals will topple moderate
governments and I truly believe this is the ideological struggle of
the 21st century and the consequences for not achieving success are

COURIC: During our interview this morning, the President
revealed information about previously undisclosed terror plots.
Fourteen suspected top al Qaeda terrorists captured after 9/11
revealed important information during interrogations. Now, the
President is pushing Congress to approve military tribunals to bring
them to justice.

Can you give us any indication about what kind of information
you were able to glean from these, quote, unquote, 'high value

PRESIDENT BUSH: Right. Well, for example, we uncovered a
potential anthrax attack on the United States or the fact that Khalid
Sheikh Mohammed had got somebody to line up people to fly airlines -
to crash airlines, I think, the West Coast or somewhere in America and
these would be Southeast Asians. We've uncovered cells and this is
pretty rich data.

COURIC: When you look back on the last five years, President
Bush, is there anything that you wish you had done differently?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Yeah, I mean, I wish for example Abu Ghraib
didn't happen. That was a stain on our nation's character and it sent
a signal about who we're not to a lot of people around the world. I
probably could have watched my language a little better.

COURIC: In terms of -

PRESIDENT BUSH: Sometimes, I try to explain myself in plain
terms and sometimes the terms too plain.

COURIC: You can take the boy out of Crawford, but you can't
take Crawford out of the boy?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, that's one way to look at it.

COURIC: I'll have with the President later, but next, the
Director of the FBI says he's taking aim at a target right here at
home. Is he on the right track? That's next.

(Commercial break.)

COURIC: Since we've been hit, the FBI's budget has almost
doubled. It's now close to $6 billion. Almost half the Bureau's
investigations involve counterterrorism and they've added 6,000 new

Jim Stewart went inside the FBI to find out just who they're

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe in Mohammed as a prophet of
Islam. We pray five times a day. This is Islam, very simple.

JIM STEWART: Korzaim Ramali (sp), the Islamic Society of Bay
Ridge, Brooklyn is very simply a place for peaceful worship, but this
holy place was also the spiritual home of 22-year-old Matin Siraj, a
man the FBI and New York Police describe as a new breed of enemy, the
homegrown terrorist.

This police video shows Siraj in the back seat.

MATIN SIRAJ (Terrorist Suspect): This is big?


SIRAJ: It's pretty small.

STEWART: Asking two cohorts how big a backpack bomb they'll
need to blow up New York City's Herald Square subway station.

According to FBI Director Robert Mueller, the significance of
the case is that al Qaeda doesn't have to plot to send killers here

What's the definition? What is homegrown?

ROBERT MUELLER (FBI Director): These are individuals who are
inspired and motivated by al Qaeda, but we have not seen any direct
connection with al Qaeda.

STEWART: Siraj, outraged by the Abu Ghraib torture scandal,
conspired to bomb the subway with a friend.

SIRAJ: I'll get dressed up like a Jew and I'll put the bomb

STEWART: And a mentor from the Bay Ridge mosque who turned out
to be a confidential informant working for the NYPD.

In the past two years, the FBI and local police say they have
uncovered at least five homegrown cells around the country, most
recently in Miami where seven men were charged with plotting to blow
up the Sears Tower in Chicago.

Have you been lucky or have you been good?

MUELLER: It's both. Yes, you could be fortunate, but to the
extent that you are thorough, to the extent that you follow up on
every lead, you make your luck.

STEWART: But if the latest homegrown cell shared bin Laden's
ideology, they sorely lacked his expertise. The Miami group's
revolutionary strategy bordered on delusional.

Are these really terrorists?

MUELLER: Prior to September 11th, you have several individuals
with box cutters only who had a scheme to hijack airlines and run them
into buildings. Any one of these groups could undertake a like
attack, and I can assure you that where we have indication or evidence
of such planning that we will investigate and we will disrupt and we
will prosecute.

STEWART: And no apologies?

MUELLER: No apologies.

STEWART: Are we safer now?

MUELLER: Yes. The Patriot Act broke down the walls and we are
much adept now at identifying pieces of information and following
up on those pieces of information with all of our counterparts in the
intelligence community and the law enforcement community.

MICHAEL SCHEUER (Terrorism Consultant): I think they're
whistling past the graveyard if they think that we're significantly
safer than we were on 9/11.

STEWART: CBS News consultant Michael Scheuer ran Alex Station,
the former CIA unit tasked with tracking Osama bin Laden. He says the
FBI shouldn't exaggerate the value of taking out these homegrown

SCHEUER: Whatever amount of resources that's devoted to that
particular cell is not being devoted against the A-team, against al

STEWART: Isn't the proof in the pudding that we haven't been
attacked since 9/11?

SCHEUER: I think that's one of the slickest and most cynical
arguments and successful arguments that American politicians have ever
come up.

STEWART: Your argument then is that it's not so much what the
FBI has done to keep an attack from occurring here, it's just that al
Qaeda hasn't gotten around to us yet, your busy elsewhere?

SCHEUER: I think they're busy elsewhere. I think they're also
endlessly patient.

STEWART: Draw your points to the recent London plane plot,
which was in the works for months and which U.S. intelligence
officials have linked directly to al Qaeda.

MUELLER: This was al Qaeda proper. They're still capable of
pulling off the big attack.

I don't believe anybody is saying that al Qaeda proper; bin
Laden and Zawahiri do not still have the ability to undertake attacks.

STEWART: That's what keeps New York City police commissioner
Ray Kelly up at night. He says despite the FBI's best efforts, the
city that's home to Ground Zero needs .

RAY KELLY (New York City Police Commissioner): It's just common
sense to realize that New York is on top of the terrorist target.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's two high profile targets in
Manhattan right now.

STEWART: Nowhere in this country is counterterrorism such an
in-your-face experience as in New York where displays of firearms and
manpower called surges have become routine. Kelly is also permanently
stationed some officers overseas.

There's some people in Washington not altogether happy with

KELLY: We have to do what we have to do to protect this city.
Five blocks from here we had 2,700 people killed.

STEWART: But aside from the machine guns and helicopters, law
enforcement's best weapon may be covert operations. It was the NYPD's
infiltration of the Brooklyn mosque, which led to the conviction of
Matin Siraj and the conspiracy to bomb Herald Square.

KELLY: We got a tip and the confidential informant came in and
he was very well motivated because he felt so strongly about this

STEWART: That motivation could be the most underreported force
helping to keep us safe.

MUELLER: The Muslim-American community here has been
tremendously helpful in terms of alerting us to individuals or group
of individuals who they believe may undertake a terrorist attack.

STEWART: That's because unlike their militant counterparts
in Europe -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you have witnessed now is only the

STEWART: Which spawned the bombings in London and Madrid;
America's Muslims have been assimilated completely.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I came here to this country, I have
never seen in my life people like the American people with an open

STEWART: And ultimately, that patriotism may turn out to be our
best defense.

COURIC: You don't have to be on anyone's watch list to discover
you're being watched, that's ahead, and as we continue tonight, we
want to recognize some Americans across this country working to make
us safer every day, the first responders.

(Commercial break.)

COURIC: Thousands of cameras, one city, watching, waiting.
Here's Erin Moriarty.

ERIN MORIARTY: If we have learned anything in the past five
years, it is this: One man's symbol of prosperity could be another
man's target, and here in the heartland's largest city, there are
plenty of targets.

CORTEZ TROTTER (Chief Emergency Officer, City of Chicago): We
have the Sears Tower. We have a thriving financial market. We have a
city that looks great.

MORIARTY: While most Americans don't want to think about
potential disasters, Cortez Trotter thinks of little else.

TROTTER: What you see -

MORIARTY: In April, the mayor of Chicago appointed him the
city's first-ever chief emergency officer.

TROTTER: It's something that, A, you don't take lightly and B,
you go home at night thinking I've got to do better, I've got to do

MORIARTY: There are a number of new security measures that have
been added to make the city safer. Out here on the streets of
Chicago, you probably won't see them, but these days, and ,
someone is probably watching you.

TROTTER: We have people watching all types of things that ten
years ago we might have thought there was nothing unusual about it.

MORIARTY: Operation Virtual Shield may be the most extensive
city surveillance system in the country linking about 3,000 cameras.

TROTTER: We've got them spaced every two blocks.

MORIARTY: And how close can we get?

TROTTER: Closer, closer. Let's see where you bought the car
from. Now, if that truck is sitting there an hour from now maybe what
we should do is have a police squad go by and just check why is this
car that's been there for an hour still sitting there.

MORIARTY: And than 100 private companies are also
connecting their cameras to the system.

TROTTER: Of course, Sears is on that list. Boeing is on that
list. John Hancock is on the list. What we're doing is taking their
cameras and feeding them right into our system here.

MORIARTY: Chicago has had a head start over most cities.

RICHARD DALEY (Chicago Mayor): The fact is there is no other
system in the world -

MORIARTY: In 1995, Mayor Richard Daley had a vision of putting
police, fire and emergency responders into one building; it's cost,
$217 million.

DALEY: I said just build me something that we know it's going
to last, that's controversial and someone said it's a waste of money,
but when 9/11 came, you're a genius.

TROTTER: Let's bring up Sears Tower.

MORIARTY: It is considered state-of-the-art, but there are
still large holes in this virtual shield, holes big enough to drive
trains through.

Is there any screening of passengers getting on trains like

JOE SHOFER (Transportation Expert): No. No.


SHOFER: How could you do it?

MORIARTY: Pre-screening passengers is impractical says mass
transportation expert Joe Shofer, yet while the federal government
spends about $8 per passenger for aviation security, only four cents
per passenger goes toward rail safety.

SHOFER: I think it's disproportionate.

MORIARTY: Chicago's METRA and other rail lines use bomb-
sniffing dogs, but as you are about to see, they are not foolproof.
Watch what happened in February on this undercover video from CBS
station WBBM when an investigator carrying a bag with components of
gunpowder walks by a dog. There is no reaction, not even when the bag
is put right in front of the dog.

TROTTER: In the event of a release of some type -

MORIARTY: The kind of terrorism that seems to worry security
experts most is bio-chemical and Chicago has already had a close call.
Just six months after 9/11, a man was found in a subway tunnel with
the ingredients for cyanide gas. Joseph Konopka, who called himself
Dr. Chaos, had no apparent political agenda; he is now in federal

TROTTER: How many areas can we be hit by terrorism, probably
than we could ever protect.

MORIARTY: Cortez Trotter admits no city can prevent all
attacks, which is why the response is just as critical.

TROTTER: We have the 22nd floor of the Sears Tower.

MORIARTY: In Chicago, detailed floor plans of major buildings
are available to all emergency services.

TROTTER: The responding units know that there is potentially
100 people on that particular floor. We have not only the floor plan,
but the actual evacuation procedure plan on each and every one of
these buildings.

MORIARTY: What kind of grade would you give the City of

JIM THOMPSON (Former Illinois Governor): I'd give Chicago a B
for achievement and an A for effort.

THOMAS KEAN (9/11 Commission Co-Chairman): Today, we present
this report -

MORIARTY: Former Illinois Governor Jim Thompson who sat on the
9/11 Commission, says Chicago like all American cities may still have
problems with communication among rescue workers.

THOMPSON: Congress agreed to turn over radio spectrum to first
responders so that police and fire can talk to each other as they were
not able to do in New York, but when do we turn it over, 2009. Why
2009? Why not now?

MORIARTY: How often do you think of 9/11?

TROTTER: Often. I watched the video of it. Often. It keeps
me focused.

As I see the faces of the public as I walk on the street, we're
responsible for them and I want them to go on living their lives and
feeling comfortable knowing that at night or early in the morning, I'm
doing enough worrying for everybody.

COURIC: So many lives on the line, two wars, a global battle.
Can we finish the job? Coming up.

(Commercial break.)

COURIC: There's an increasingly heated debate about how we
should be fighting global terrorism. In a new CBS News/New York Times
poll, a majority of Americans, 54 percent say the wars in Iraq and
Afghanistan are creating terrorists who want to attack us.

Lara Logan has been on the ground in both countries and for the
soldiers she spoke to, there is no debate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They know we're here.

LARA LOGAN: Five years after 9/11, American soldiers are still
being wounded and dying in Iraq and Afghanistan. Their sacrifices are
necessary President Bush says to ensure that no Americans die in
terror attacks on U.S. soil. That mission certainly remains a cause
worth fighting for to Marine Captain Andrew Delgaudio.

People talk about the war on terror. They talk about the war
against al Qaeda, but its you and your Marines who are really fighting
that war up close.

CAPTAIN ANDREW DELGAUDIO (U.S. Marine Corps): I look at it as
every insurgent that we kill over here is one less person that will
fly an airplane into the World Trade Center or some other building in
the United States.

LOGAN: But as these two wars drag on with no end in sight, the
fighting is making America less, not safe, says leading Afghan
expert Barnett Rubin.

BARNETT RUBIN (Afghanistan Expert): I think it is very hard for
Americans who have not traveled in this region to understand the very
high level of anger at the United States throughout the Muslim world.

LOGAN: In Afghanistan, that anger has helped fuel a resurgence
of the Taliban, an enemy America thought it had defeated, but the very
people who once harbored Osama bin Laden have made this past year the
bloodiest ever for U.S. troops here.

RUBIN: After five years of effort, the Taliban are now
powerful than they have been at any time since they were removed from

LOGAN: We were determined to see for ourselves. We drove just
two hours south of the Afghan capital, Kabul, to get to an area under
Taliban control. After months of negotiations, their leaders agreed
to meet with us, but I was required to wear traditional dress.

I met with than 100 Taliban fighters a mere ten miles from
the nearest U.S. base. They told me they want to drive the Americans
out of Afghanistan.

You are only fighting for your country?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No. No. We are fighting for first for
our religion, our country and our earth.

LOGAN: Since the U.S. invasion, the Taliban have adopted new
tactics and, today, they're using roadside bombings and suicide
attacks, hallmarks of al Qaeda, a sign the two groups are now closer
than ever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those people who are against American
interests are al Qaeda.

LOGAN: Okay. We have to stop to pray. Afghanistan is seen by
al Qaeda as their spiritual home, and Osama bin Laden and his
followers are determined to get it back no matter how long it takes.

The Afghan government doesn't believe bin Laden has been in this
country since he fled U.S. and Afghan forces along this very road
nearly five years ago. U.S. intelligence hasn't had any word on him
here for at least ten months. The most widely held belief is that
he's just across the Afghan border inside Pakistan, beyond the reach
of U.S. forces.

ROBERT TEMPLER (Islam Expert): If the Taliban did come back
into power, even if the Taliban were to gain control over a
significant area, that would provide a base for al Qaeda.

LOGAN: Robert Templer, an expert on Islamic extremism, says
that would be a disaster.

TEMPLER: It would provide a greater ease of movement,
flexibility, training camps - all those sorts of things that we saw
before 9/11.

LOGAN: Military might alone is not enough to contain the newly
emboldened Taliban and their spreading influence. Army Lieutenant
Colonel Chris Toner emphasizes you have to win the hearts and minds as

LIEUTENANT COLONEL CHRIS TONER (U.S. Army): And the people, you
can see it in their faces. They see progress. They understand what
is the future for them. After 30 years of war, you're not going to
make it happen in five years.

LOGAN: Some changes are already happening. A vibrant free
press, new construction, girls in the classroom and the burqa,
the very symbol of the repressive Taliban regime is slowly coming off,
but for most Afghans who still don't have electricity, clean water or
jobs, the pace of change has been painfully slow.

GENERAL DAVID RICHARDS (NATO Commander): We need to address
that sense of frustration.

LOGAN: NATO commander Lieutenant General David Richards.

RICHARDS: That isn't happening rapidly or visibly enough.

LOGAN: Why isn't it happening rapidly enough?

RICHARDS: Well, I think the Achilles heel of this operation has
been this belief that it was all in the bag initially.

LOGAN: Many believe this same mistake was made in Iraq where
America's welcome has turned into a bloody fight for survival.
than 700 attacks on civilians every day make rebuilding parts of the
country all but impossible, and today, civil war looms.

TEMPLER: As for Iraq being an incubator of hate, it's clear
that Iraq policies just had immense damage to the image of America
around the world. Its been a source of unfortunate inspiration for
some people to go out and wage jihad.

LOGAN: And that's precisely what's happening in the Iraqi town
of Ramadi, a breeding ground for a new generation of al Qaeda
terrorists who have taken on the U.S. Marines with a vengeance.

For the past 25 minutes, the Marines have been firing at
insurgents who engage this building. We took small arms fire
incoming. They returned fire.

Since that firefight in April, at least 13 Americans have
died, but even with that rising toll, Marine Captain Delgaudio is
convinced his men are doing their part to make Americans safer.

DELGAUDIO: So 30, 40 years from now, you know, we don't have
another World Trade Center, we don't have another Pentagon, we don't
have Americans dying on their shores because we've allowed this cancer
to grow in the Middle East.

COURIC: Ever hear of the NCTC? What about the threat matrix?
We'll tell you what they are and what they do to keep us safe. Stay
with us.

(Commercial break.)

COURIC: The 9/11 attacks were a kind of puzzle the government
couldn't solve with all kinds of warnings and clues. Would we get it
right today? David Martin found an unmarked building in the
Washington suburbs where secrets are being shared.

SCOTT REDD (Director, National Counterterrorism Center): Before
9/11, there were 13 different databases on known terrorist identities.
They were disconnected, different agencies and people didn't talk to
each other.

DAVID MARTIN: Scott Redd may be the most important person
you've never heard of. As head of the new and very secret National
Counterterrorism Center, it is his job to make all the different
intelligence agencies and their computers talk to each other and share
everything they know about terrorist plots against this country.

So you're the guy in charge of the war plan for the war against

REDD: That's one way of putting it, yes, sir.

MARTIN: And you give that to the President?

REDD: Well, yes, sir, I do.

MARTIN: Another way of describing your job might be to make
sure something like 9/11 never happens again.

REDD: That's what we worry about every day, David.

MARTIN: Known by the initials NCTC, the Counterterrorism Center
is normally off-limits and we're not allowed to tell you exactly where
this building is, but we were given unprecedented access to this brand
new, state-of-the-art nerve center.

Because this center is so new, it is loaded with the kind of
gadgets that make this make this conference room look like a made-for-
TV movie, but it's not the gadgets that make this room the hub of the
war against terror; it's the business that's transacted here.

You do this every morning?

KEVIN BROCK (FBI Agent): Every morning at eight o'clock.

MARTIN: FBI agent Kevin Brock chairs the morning's top-secret

BROCK: Here is where we exchange current intelligence, daily
intelligence about what the terrorism threat is out there, and we talk
about and we make sure that information is being exchanged freely
among the agencies in the intelligence community.

MARTIN: For the first time in the history of this country, 18
different intelligence agencies are routinely sharing the kind of
sensitive information they used to keep to themselves. We're not
allowed to stay long.

BROCK: Good morning, everybody, we're going to get started.

MARTIN: And when you listen to the roll call, you'll understand

BROCK: CIA, good morning. NSA, good morning. White House,
good morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: White House here.

MARTIN: Every morning begins with an update of the threat
matrix, intelligence that has come in overnight on plots against this

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning, everyone. We have two SIT
items and seven threat matrix items to brief this morning.

MARTIN: One of those SIT reps, short for situation report
contains the latest developments in the London bomb plot, which was
just broken up the day before we were here. Redd recited for us the
message he sent to his staff after that.

REDD: I said this was just the type of event that NCTC was
established to address. The amount of effort that went into foiling
this plot was admirable and extremely effective. Bottom line is: We
save lives.

MARTIN: And the corollary is, watch out for the next one?

REDD: Watch out for the next one. Never let your guard down.

MARTIN: That's why the operation center goes 24/7. Randy
Crawford is the supervisor of this watch.

Is this some sort of an airline -

RANDY CRAWFORD (National Counterterrorism Center): That's an
aircraft tracker and what that is used for tracking aircraft movement
around the United States. These are aircraft that are inbound to the
Washington National Capital Region, and we can go in and pull up their
flight numbers.

MARTIN: They can also call up the passenger manifest and check
it against the no-fly list of known or suspected terrorists.

CRAWFORD: Earlier this week, there was a no-fly on a flight
bound from Heathrow into the United States, and sure enough, we got
the list and there was a no-fly on it and the plane turned around and
landed at Heathrow.

MARTIN: There's a name on there that corresponds to a name on
that huge database that you keep of all suspected terrorists, and then
that's enough for someone else to make the decision to turn a plane


RUSS TRAVERS (National Counterterrorism Center): Information
sharing is undoubtedly the most complex thing I've ever been
associated with.

MARTIN: Russ Travers is responsible for keeping that list of
suspected terrorists accurate and up to date.

How big is that database?

TRAVERS: It's got between 300,000 and 400,000 names in it now.
It's huge. It doubled in '04 and it doubled again in '05.

MARTIN: Sorting through the 6,000 cables that come in each day
and the six million documents stored on the Center's internal Web site
is a task of mind-boggling complexity, but Redd insists it's night and
day better than before 9/11.

REDD: Five years on, we're better prepared today to fight this
war than we have been at any time in our history.

MARTIN: We're better prepared, but are we winning?

REDD: You don't know a commander that is going to tell you that
he is winning the war in the midst of a war. There are too many
unknowns out there, but I will say this, it's a long war and if we
have the perseverance to stick with it, we'll lose a few battles along
the way and that's almost inevitable, but we're going to win most of
the battles and at the end of the day, Lord willing, we'll win the

PRESIDENT BUSH: If the United States ever says, oh, my
goodness, I don't want to defend democracy because somebody might harm
us, we will have lost our soul.

(Commercial break.)

COURIC: One philosophical question -


COURIC: That many people have that I'd like you to respond to
if you could is that U.S. policy vis-a-vis Iraq and the United States
close alliance with Israel have galvanized terrorists worldwide, in
other words, these policies have created terrorists than they
have eliminated. How do you respond to that?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, the first thing I would tell people that
we weren't in Iraq on September 11th, 2001 when 19 killers killed
3,000 Americans in the most brutal attack on our soil ever.

COURIC: But they were from Saudi Arabia.

PRESIDENT BUSH: They share the same jihadist mentality, this
radicalism, and so my first answer is on Iraq the notion that somehow
defending ourselves has made us vulnerable, I just don't agree
with it.

Secondly, of course, we stand with democracies and our friend,
Israel. If the United States ever says, oh, my goodness, I don't want
to defend democracy because somebody might harm us, we will have lost
our soul.

Look, let me just share something with you that I strongly
believe. I believe a mother in America and a Muslim mother in the
Middle East share the same concerns for their children and that is
they want peace and they want their children to grow up in a hopeful
world. That's what I believe. That's why I can say the extremists
are in the minority in the Middle East, and I strongly believe we have
a duty to help those who recognize that, you know, this quagmire, this
swamp of resentment can be drained by liberty.

COURIC: So five years later, how safe are we? Americans have
an answer; most say the threat of a terrorist attack is something
we'll always have to live with. That's the new normal. We're still
figuring out how to be free and vigilant at the same time, and still
trying to figure out what victory is in this new kind of war.

We do know one thing, the heroism that came out of 9/11 is still
very much alive. You see it every day in our soldiers half a world
away and in the first responders who say they would do it all over
again, thankfully, that's also part of the new normal.

I'm Katie Couric, good night.

Copyright 2006 Federal News Service, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

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